>>45031
We have been running diesel electric subs for a long time just fine and for the immediate vicinity that is fine.

>For imaginary conflict with local neighbors like Indonesia even old subs would be ok, especially considering that modern war is about combined arms, not subs. It is hard to imagine situation when AU sub range would be decisive factor in any possible war even in future. Most modern local conflicts are limited operations anyway, and it is hard to imagine real war with subs and convoys like in WW2 in 21st century for Australia.
For Indonesia a diesel electric sub will be fine but they are not who Australia is worried about but they could make problems over Papua new guinea or East Timor again. I agree with the point about range but remember Indonesia is a nation of Islands so if they were to try to invade Papua new Guinea or something they would need convoys to get troops and supplies there and likewise they would have a lot of shipping heading to Java where most the population is so sub war makes a lot of sense. But submarines can also screen and that would be useful for our LHD's and other surface vessels. Any ground forces we would deploy need to be shipped their first after all.

>In realistic situation it is wiser to put money in air force as it is much more universal tool.
Australia is doing that as well, we are getting F 35s and also there is the Loyal Wingman program which is a UAV program underway(it actually flew a few months ago).

>Direct conflict with China means two options - if it is China vs AU without allies, subs wouldn't matter (but conflict wouldn't happen because Australia already is a Chinese resource supplier that can be forced into anything by economic means). If it is big war with US and others, Australian part also doesn't matter so much.

It would matter because the Chinese would physically have to get here but I agree it won't happen. Australia's part in an alliance might not matter so much but we still would contribute.

>But for protecting own borders, cheaper subs are perfectly ok. Especially when nuclear tech also brings non-military dangers and eats money. Why having big and costly toy when it doesn't change how do you live?

Yes, they have not even mentioned the cost of this program yet, all they have said is that it will be more expensive but not by how much. Oh and that they won't be fully operational until the 2040s so we have to update our Collins class subs in the 2030s as well...