Last pic:
-10: police that were waiting in a street that lead to the street where the strikers where walking

>>30566
How do I acquire Catalan gf?
That's a fat looking heli up there.

>>30567
>1st pic
That old dude on the right has footage of you, mang.

>>30570
Fukkdapolicecominstraightfromdeunderground

WHAT'S HAPPENING NOW:
a group of 200 fascists are making a counter-protest (https://twitter.com/i/status/1184927728149106691 ) and they are trying to attack the protestors ( https://twitter.com/i/status/1184929424388562944 ), the police is following the fascists, but apparently they are only shooting at the independentists (https://www.vilaweb.cat/noticies/video-mossos-permeten-manifestarse-feixistes-disparen-antifeixistes/ at the end of the page there's a video about what I'm talking about)
The independentists are making barricades (pic related)

>>30571
>How do I acquire Catalan gf?
kek
>That's a fat looking heli up there.
there were like tree of them btw
>That old dude on the right has footage of you, mang.
shit nigga

>>30572
also, sorry for posting twiter vids, but that's what the strikers mostly use to share the vids

>I'll do later a re-cap of what happened before
Basically, the protests are because the guys who organized the 2017 referendum got their senteces two days ago (aprox 10 years per each)
vid is one from the twiter links but from a diferent perspective

Tomorrow I'll go to the general strike and will probably stay for longer so you'll get more pics from me

>>30572
>the police is following the fascists
the police is also chatting with them apparently
https://twitter.com/FonsiLoaiza/status/1184913326763102208?s=08

>>30572
why do you call them fascists? afaik after franco, the new king was a pretty lenient guy, yet you guys took it as weaknees and push your agenda. this seperatist move seems rather infantile and thoughtless.

>>30577
>why do you call them fascists?
Mostly because some of them are carrying the francoist version of the spanish flag and at one point in this vid >>30575 they all say "arriba españa" e.g the francoist "heil hitler" that is theoricaly ilegal and the police should detain them but whatever
>the new king was a pretty lenient guy
He saved us from having another dictatorship tho times wich I thank him for that, but that does not justify having a monarchy

>>30578
why saying arriba espanya illegal though?

>but that does not justify having a monarchy
well I'm always a more practice first ideology secondy type of guy, so I would be ok with it.

Also my views are just a mere obvervation of an outsider, a native would have much more advantage over a foreigner when it comes to knowing these events, which many people seems to forget nowadays.

>>30580
>why saying arriba espanya illegal though?
It isn't, my bad It's still a fascist slogan tho, so they are francioists
>Also my views are just a mere obvervation of an outsider, a native would have much more advantage over a foreigner when it comes to knowing these events, which many people seems to forget nowadays.
That's my objective with this thread, trying to show what's it like as someone from here, anyways if someone wonders, here's my political test >>30521 since I'm obiusly going to be biased on this subject, at least I want you to know what I think in

I have to post it here too.
I've more time to add for the discussion in the evening.

What are the protests about, separatism? Are you a separatist?

>>30577
Juan Carlos has my eternal admiration because of this single moment in his life:
C2%BFPor_qu%C3%A9_no_te_callas%3F">https://en.wikipedia.org/wikiC2%BFPor_qu%C3%A9_no_te_callas%3F

So, I have sympathies for the Catalan people, due to historical reasons, in our past 500 years on many occasion independence or acknowledgements of our rights were the central motives of Hungarian struggles. For this reason I have also sympathies for other folks with similar burden all over the globe.
The Catalan situation also relevant for the (still not yet reached) autonomy of Székelyföld (in Transylvania) so they achieving independence would be a huge precedent and might give further strength to push for autonomy.

I think Catalans by themselves don't have a chance. I see two passable routes.
1. Embracing internationalism more. Since they have strong socialist roots this might seem convenient. They should work towards the dissolution of sovereign countries (among them Spain), with the creation of the United States of Europe. However this has the uncomfortable side effect that Catalonia would be relegated under another central government, instead of Spain they would be just a region of Europe instead, and wouldn't mean actual independence.
2. Embracing nationalism, promote Catalan culture and look for allies within Spain. Fan the flames of regional identity all over the country, and lobby for decentralization and placing power into the hands of local, regional governments. Create and nurture the movements in the other autonomous communities, create the powers which could be allied then dismantle Spain together. Basically this would be a self-balkanization of the country instead just leaving Spain. This however bears the burden of negotiating some deal with the EU, ensuring the membership of the newly formed states.

>>30598
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/14/catalan-separatist-leaders-given-lengthy-prison-sentences
>Are you a separatist?
Yeah
>>30600
kek, I remember watching that
>>30603
>to push for autonomy.
Always remember "may there always be happiness to ask for autonomy"
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LBKtRORZk_Y [Embed]
>I think Catalans by themselves don't have a chance. I see two passable routes.
I don't really have anything else to add to the conversation but I just wanted to let you know that this is pretty interesting

>>30617
The strikers are also blocking streets arround catalonia, in vid police go to one of them with extendible nightsticks (wich are ilegal in Spain)

>>30603
literally none of it seems beneficial also the socialist movement was very divided it's likely it'll be divided once more due to personal glory of so called intellectuals.

Most of the world accuses world powers yet the reigonal powers keep getting divided instead of cooperation. This doesn't seem like a smart move at all.

>>30598
I do remember that.

>>30582
>It's still a fascist slogan tho
why and how exactly?
>It's still a fascist slogan tho

lmao, the Catalan """"embassy"""" in Tokyo posted this. yeah sure, good luck with that

>>30628
what is it saying?

>>30627
>why and how exactly?
The wikipedia page is not in english but https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemas_del_franquismo#%C2%A1Arriba_Espa%C3%B1a_!

>>30630
so during and after the war it was neccesary to praise spain and franco? that's what my translator said.

>>30629
”Freedom for Catalan political prisoners!"

Catalonia has nothing to gain from this struggle. Spain will not give-in to their demands because they already know what happens when you do, their demands only increase. It happened in Honk Kong and now China regrets it deeply. Those 12 steps or Rules for Radicals are becoming outdated and only increasing centralized government expertise into dealing with radicals. I believe Spain will never concede one inch to separatists even though their cause is noble and seem to be just. It just goes against the plans of bureaucrats to start balkanization of nations that soon. Maybe later once dissolution is economically interesting for the whole EU block.

>>30633
>It just goes against the plans of bureaucrats to start balkanization of nations that soon.
Since, at the very least, 1945 everyone with the slightest stake in geopolitics has been hostile to the slightest idea of borders changing. This is a world in which a great number of highly educated people believe Western Sahara exists and Somaliland does not.

>>30631
Basically, in special ocasions and if you wanted to have a newspaper published you had to say "¡arriba españa!"
>>30633
> I believe Spain will never concede one inch to separatists
Youre most probably right, but the spanish state's way to solving catalonia's independentists movements until now was just ingoring the problem, at least with what we are doing now they have to recognize our power

>>30612
>somebody was giving pamphlets talking about route 1.
That's the worst route of all. And there's only two. It doesn't for the Catalan people but against Spain. It's just changing shackles to chains. Also as I think of it, it has the undertone of socialism, but for now it would only be good for the multis, a Europe country that is.

>>30614
That's a lot of people.

>>30627
Route 2 would be beneficial for the Catalan people. They get sovereignty. What's not beneficial in that? In term of other things, situation wouldn't change much, still everyone in the EU, so cooperation would still remain. They could even form a block like V4 (just better, ehehe).

>>30628
Nice.

>>30633
>Catalonia has nothing to gain from this struggle.
They gain the much needed Catalan identity. The common struggle builds the sense of community. This is the kernel which the Catalan nation can be built around.

>>30634
This is very true tho. But the thing isn't impossible, look at Yugoslavia.
Frankly it wouldn't make much difference if there weren't a Spain, but smaller countries instead. Only certain deals would have to be negotiated with different partners.

>>30659
catalan identity already exist and spanish government already recognizes that.

> still everyone in the EU
won't last forever let alone I doubt it'll survive more than 25 years. not that the idea is wrong, just the execution has significant problems which is quite sad.

EU couldn't even handle the fall. I wonder how would they handle another Putin agression. Sooner or later he'll come for EU.

>>30660
>catalan identity already exist and spanish government already recognizes that.
This. Catalan already exists as an identity. I've been to Barcelona, the museums had plaques in both spanish and catalan, etc lol.

>>30660
As an ethnicity. But not national identity. Nation != folk.

Literally no problems with the EU which could led to any disintegration. Even Britain cannot into out of it.
25 years is a long time. But here in Europe we have to cling together. This doesn't mean Spain - for example - has to be a country.
There are other separatist movements all over the place. It is good because it means national identity is important for the people. And it appears they can't experience communion with wider range of people, but it seems to be working on smaller scale. Which proves we cannot be a community on a global level, cosmopolitanism is a dead end which leads to the disintegration of communities.

I understand where you're coming from with the opposition of free Catalonia. It's a parallel of free Kurdistan. I also get that reasoning. I am also anti-separatist: I'm against the independence of Northern Hungary. But I support it's independence from Czechia.
Here in Hungary we are on the both side of the fence.

>>30661
Again, that's not a national identity.

Also having the sense of belonging a community is different than a mere theoretical existence of an identity. And the youngsters on the streets they are getting their share of that feeling.

>>30662
>>30662
> It's a parallel of free Kurdistan
It's your perspective mate. Catalans have richest region in the Spain meanwhile Kurds are either ultra commies or ultra conservatives where they still circumcise girls sometimes both and no women can walk freely in "their" cities.

Telling they are paralles is an outright major insult for Catalans considering not just money, they are culturally far ahead people. I'm not ani-seperatist or seperatist, I'm only having thoughts purely from what I know about certain specific situation, picking a side like I mentioned above is just wrong.

>Nation != folk.
correct. I just assumed you meant cultural identity, in this case they are not a nation, yeah.

>>30662
>I'm against the independence of Northern Hungary. But I support it's independence from Czechia.
Is that some legit movement or it's some Trianon-tier disagreement?

>>30665
Saying that some people don't deserve their own country because they are smelly backward barbarians doesn't seem like a solid reasoning. Sure, I wouldn't want Kurds settling in my country en masse but they still eligible for their own country which existence will also keep them out from my country. Them and their struggle is legit parallel of the Catalans.
In fact this analogy can be extended further: Spain isn't Turkey in our metaphor but the surrounding lands where Kurds live. France is Turkey - France also has Catalans (with their own movement). If the KurdsCatalans in Syria/IraqSpain get their own country this would unsettle the relative calm in TurkeyFrance, where the KurdsCatalans would shift up with one gear and make trouble, endangering a piece of the country, and maybe even secede. So TurkeyFrance don't want any free KurdishCatalan state.
This parallel fits even more than I first thought. But anyway just about any separatist movement is a good analogy.

>>30666
What do you mean? I'm partially asking because I'm not sure if it's clear that I call Northern Hungary the country between Poland and Hungary which real name actually is Highlands.

>>30668
>I call Northern Hungary the country between Poland and Hungary
Only countryballing left beyond.

>>30663
You didn't say national identity, you just said identity. That can be interpreted.
Anyway, that's their issue. Personally i don't support it, not that it matters.

>>30668
>Saying that some people don't deserve their own country because they are smelly backward barbarians
kurds are not a nation though, you can drench them in galons of perfume still wouldnt be one.

>still eligible for their own country which existence will also majority of kurds in Turkey live in marmara region not southeast.

> they still eligible for their own country
literally non existent reasoning right there.

> France is Turkey - France also has Catalans
Nope, you still equating people just because they want to secede. You have selective reasoning right there, which prevents you to look this subject as a complex matter.

>>30672
Well I mentioned:
>This is the kernel which the Catalan nation can be built around.
But anyway I could have been more clear.

>>30673
>kurds are not a nation though
Not yet, but they have the same right to be a nation as the Turks have. Their perceived qualities has nothing to do with it. What you're saying is just pure ad hominem, you attack their character which is just a logical fallacy. With that you also creating double standards along which you want to justify your partiality in Kurdish question.

>>30675
>>30675
>Not yet, but they have the same right to be a nation as the Turks have.
Again no reasoning

>What you're saying is just pure ad hominem
No, as you are implying all people are the same and all have right to create a nation. If you are not a nation then you're just a cultural identity, if you're just a cultural identity then you have no right to create a nation.

People are different, of course I'm going to treat them differently according to their merit. Also you still didn't explain why all identities have right to create a nation. Know that even according to wilsonian principles it can easily be claimed it was for nations who were colonized. There is such interpretation and mind you a very legit one, yet you didn't even bother to give it a think, you're just speaking from purely ideological view with no practices.

>>30681
>>30681
A nation is a stable community of people, formed on the basis of a common language, territory, history, ethnicity, or psychological make-up manifested in a common culture...

it goes on. there are many definitions but I accept the more defined, fleshed out ones. they are not a nation. they have not created a state dog knows how any century succesfully. so yeah they are not a nation.

>>30682
Yeah, they are not a nation I'm not saying that they are, I'm saying that they have all but a state to be considered a nation and if they wish, they should be able to create one

>>30680
>>30675
>right to create a nation

"Right" is just a social construct that doesn't exist in reality. "Right" only works when someone can manifest it into action, with force or political power or external help or whatever. If you dump all these talks about human and nation rights, in the end only ability to achieve matters.

I.e. Kurds tried but failed because their allies wouldn't want to help them, and they by themselves couldn't create state because of many reasons. Catalans aren't successful too, because everyone around (EU) don't want this, and they could only protest, but not fight. Want independence? Just kick out Spanish government from your land (that may end in long civil war). If you can't allow war, your independence desire and all these "rights" are nothing. Kurds are trying though.

Being real "nation" (as some entity) or not doesn't matter much, especially because nation is a imaginary construct too. No one deserves anything by default. Although modern times aren't good for independence movements at all.

>>30684
>>30684
That's from practical perspective. Though even from the abstract perspective not every identity have a right to create an nation.

>>30684
Well, yeah, ofc it's all made up.
Let's say I'm on an island, all alone. Do my rights exist? Well in my mind maybe, but these rights only can be "materialized" via practice and they only make sense in relation with others.
For example free speech. I could say whatever I want but it wouldn't matter anyway to noone around to hear it, or noone around to get offended by it, or noone around to say "shut your mouth" to me. It would be pointless and actually non-existent.
However if someone else would get on that island, right at that moment they would all make sense, they could regulate the relation, the interaction between us.
However if the other person would have a gun (and I would fear for my life/health). He could pretty much regulate what I could do. Where would be my rights? It would depend on what he would allow, it would depend on the temper of the one in the position of power.
But what if I could get the gun? I could allow or deny things from him, on my whim. Since there's no other power telling me what can I allow for him, it's just me.
Where are these so called human or natural or whatever rights originate from? From the abstinence of the authority. The state is stronger than me but allows me to have rights, to speak freely (to some extend, it it's not about... the Holocaust, most notably). And the Hungarian state is forced by the community of nations, who are stronger than the Hungarian state, to allow me having rights. It's a sad truth that in practice not the Hungarians got together and decided that what rights can the members of the community have.

>>30697
But!
There is one right which cannot be taken away by force. The result can be denied, but not the right itself. About this right I've never read anywhere or at least not this bluntly. This is the right for struggle. This is what enables me to look for opportunity to get that gun, even at times when all my rights are taken away. I could fail, but they can't deny it from me. Well, I can throw it away this right from myself, but I can pick it up anytime.

>>30697
>>30697
>But what if I could get the gun?
he would have legit reason to pull the trigger. it's not like he would wait to get kys.

>>30702
The sentence implied I got the gun. He can't pull the trigger of a gun he doesn't have anymore.
Why do you split hairs?

>>30706
>>30706
well you can still kys in peace while commiting this action.

>Why do you split hairs?
it's not like this is an unnecesary detail. I still would like to see you're being in one piece and alive though.

I have to admit, I'm a bit confused on the Catalan issue. On the pro-independence side, you have people saying that over 90% want independence from Spain, Spain is a corrupt shithole slipping back into totalitarianism, then you have anti-independence side saying that this is nonsense, only 40% of Catalonians support independence, Spain is free and the most democratic of all, etc, etc, and I can't find any in-between or even anything that's an objective, impartial look at the issue rather than hysterical shitflinging. So, could a kind soul from that region that knows the situation better enlighten me, por favor?

>>30846
>>30846
>totalitarianism
ROFL

In other news, the body of Franco has been exhumed from the Valle de los Caidos by the government
https://www.bitchute.com/video/195O1c28b3s/
Spen eggsplen

>>30846
>could a kind soul from that region that knows the situation better enlighten me
They couldn't. It's liek if an outsider would try to judge Romanian-Hungarian relations based on what both of us say. We are right ofc.
To be honest Catalonia's population is pretty mixed, others live there all over from Spain. And when they hold referendums, even tho the vast majority of participants vote for leaving (90%) it doesn't mean much since only those vote who care about the issue: the Catalans. But the others from other Spanish communities don't. This is how you get that 40% number. Catalans would leave, all the others living there don't care, their life wouldn't change much since Catalonia would be EU country just the same, it's like they were in Portugal or France, they would work in Catalonia and live their cozy life the same as if it still was Spain.

>>30975
>removing corpses in an attempt to get progressive votes
>not left wing

>thanks to them Spain has been without goberment since April
You do know that a state with no government means one without police authority right? Who's establishing the law if there is no government? Are people geting jailed for breaking it? As long as there are laws there is government

>>30979
It's not like the previously established authorities, like the military, police or local governments just disappear out of thin air. It's just a sin of those parliamentary systems.

>>30975
Spain either needs mass goverment reform or Catalonia better be ready to face reality as an independent state and not one of those cucked, we can still be part of the EU so not much will change. Truth be told strength is better in numbers but I don't think anybody really knows what they are doing on any end of that mess. if you want my carrot of an opinion

>>30979
>a state with no government means one without police authority right?
That's not true. The authority comes from the people and as long as they have a legit result during elections the whole establishment and it's institutions are legit. Police is still working the same backed by the same authority.
Germany had no govt. from 2017 Sept to 2018 March, the country was just fine.

>>30983
>Spain either needs mass goverment reform
Yeah, not likely to happen
>we can still be part of the EU so not much will change.
Are you another catalabernd?
>Truth be told strength is better in numbers but I don't think anybody really knows what they are doing on any end of that mess. if you want my carrot of an opinion
Yeah there have been multiple parties trying to coopt the movent, let's wait and hope or in my case go to the strikes

>>30997
>The authority comes from the people and as long as they have a legit result during elections the whole establishment and it's institutions are legit.
The people merely choose which head to place for the government. They can't implement their authority over someone else without having to fall back on the law, which needs a government to apply it.
>Police is still working the same backed by the same authority.
The state mantains the police, and you need a government to have the state.
>Germany had no govt. from 2017 Sept to 2018 March, the country was just fine.
What is your idea of a cunt without government, because we may just be having big differences. For me if there's no government there is no one to establish order, thus anarchism becomes the norm.

>>31003
>>31003
> For me if there's no government there is no one to establish order
in some countries institutions work without government in some extent.

>>31005
wouldn't the institutions become the government then?

>>31006
no, as they are not a political organization nor try to rule the state.

>>31001
can you suggest me a good movie about spanish civil war?

>>31009
You have pretty much seen all the films about the spanish civil war that I have seen there is also "Vivir la utopía" but that's a documentary

>>31012
>Vivir la utopía
I'm going to check it now.

>>31014
It mostly talks about the CNT/FAI, and it also talks about the stalinists as if they were the sole reason why the republicans lost the civil war, but it's still pretty good at teaching you the situation that was lived in the anarchist-controlled zones during the war

>>31016
oh yeah and there is also this film https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066530/ wich I was planning to see someday, it looks more artistical than historical tho

>>31017
I came for spanish civil war and got hot incest scenes.

>>31046
They fucked each other proper that's for sure.

>>31046
kek, is it any good?

>>31048
>>31047
weirdest boner I have ever had.

>>31049
kek

>>31050
hnnggg I'm hard as diamond right now.

>>31054
jej, is the movie worth a watch :::DDD?

>>31055
>>31017
yes, this is the best movie suggestion on this board.

>>31057
ohh nice, can't wait to see it then lel

This board is getting too weird for me right now tbh

>>31061
Aren't you that guy who wanted to kill his cat or something?

>>31062
>>31062
What the hell is your problem man?

I would never hurt an animal. Why on earth would you say something like that?

>>31078
Oh I didn't mean to ofend you, but there was another duch who made a thread about him wanting to kill his cat or something like that and I found it weird that he would find this weird.

>>31083
Don't get balls at face value, that guy:
1. might wasn't even Dutch,
2. probably didn't even had a cat.
And several posters can be from the same country. Well, for Hungary it's a slim chance, but sometimes one of my compatriots drop buy and posts something there was one who posted via Tor, maybe to avoid confusion, I dunno. Sometimes I also jump into conclusions about other posters, who they are, happens. Anyway I try to reply anyone beside Bogdan the same, despite "unpleasant" encounters because chewing on what was written doesn't help things, but positive discussion still can be had with anyone.

>>31061
It's ok, it's just the young uns meet their first European movie. It will pass.

>>31086
>>31086
>It's ok, it's just the young uns meet their first European movie. It will pass.

The literal garbage films produced man smdh. It's like they make things thinking "how shit can we make things and show to an audience".

>>31054
>>31049
>>31046
Turkey man we talked about the hornt earlier on. I'm getting a little worried right now

>>31086
Oh I'm sorry hungaryanon, was just trying to figure out if he was that dutchbernd
>>31104
>I'm getting a little worried right now
Don't worry, let him discover new fetishes

>>31111
falangist moms are my new fetish

>>31117
Unfortunately I don't think you will find many porn with this fetish

>>31111
>>31117
>>31119
gross



Ok so this thread went from catalonia reportin' to "lollz looks at this incest shit where we passive aggresively mock Nationalist Spain" in only 13 days. Not sure what was the point of this. I've even seen videos of protestors throwing fireworks to try and crash police helicopters.

I've even seen twitter vids where protestors act extremely violent towards police and almost kill them
>But they started it I swearz
uh huh



I'm definitely supporting Spain now thanks to this thread. Congrats OP. You did the exact opposite of what you intended

P.S Long live Spain

>>31123
you are free to express your opinion but why so aggresive? also this is not ernschan we just add some spontenous conversation to the topic. none of us intended to derail the thread and shitpost until 404 happens.

>>31132
>you are free to express your opinion but why so aggressive?
Oh I was going to only say gross to it.

The rest of my post was actually for a blog forum but it got added here for some reason. Was thinking about it but then I thought "nah too mean" and then deleted it from here before posting but it still went through. Couldn't delete it after posting it either since End doesn't autogenerate a password for my post, so the delete option is unavailable.

Sorry if I came off to aggressive

>>31149
Interesting things these protests are. They always the same, and I'm not talking about those which go down without incidents (those are the same too tho). But these types where tensions are high can be known what will be going down, protestors do the same everywhere on the globe, police does the same everywhere. The basic intention of those who organize these isn't to clash with the police but it always escalates to that, and ends the same. Protestors make property damage, to communal properties (bus stops, traffic signs etc) and prive ones (cars, shop windows etc.), and the police always does some bodily harm to a couple of people. Broken noses, cracked skulls, teargas and maybe rubber shots.
I will continue but first as a sidenote: both parties use it for the same, showing the brutality of the other.
What I don't understand that how come no organizers of these protests tried to prepare for the clash with the police. Well some prepare with half assed measures like gasmask, but to be honest a couple dozen of properly equipped protestors in small units deployed at the right time at the right place could btfo the whole police force. And I'm not talking about guns and shit, but good old getting medieval.
And then from that they could take over the streets - and in Catalonia's case - prepare to remove Spanish authority and their enforcers so politicians upstairs could talk nice and declare independence. Ofc it's useless since then the Spanish army would arrive.
Anyway ofc they wouldn't want to risk occasional death during the clashes and many years of prison after they eventually failed. But then if they don't wanna make sacrifices why do anything at all? Why go out then? To do nothing? To get teargassed but resolve jackshit?
For me all these protests for whatever seems pointless, maybe I could rationalize that this way people can really show what problems they feel important, but to be honest even if couple of hundred thousands people go to the street to march around... they still a minority in most cases, noone can say that "here, this is how the majority feels". Maybe if they would collect signatures and show it into the faces of politicians to do something (since the protestors don't want to actually do anything really) that would worth more effort.
So tl;dr these protests are kinda ersatz activities instead of doing something that will have an effect or impact. Always they either push all in for a clean break or keep everything strictly on paper and clean.

>>31181
>>31181
>What I don't understand that how come no organizers of these protests
they are mostly not centrally organized. and in current year significant part of the 'protestors' are cringy zoomers that are in there to take photo with vandalised cars or shit like that.

and there are always massive retards openly supporting doing terrorist shit. those people are worse than the worst police.

t.been in gezi park protests

>>31186
>they are mostly not centrally organized.
There are always one or more organizations who kindling the fire. There are always groups whose members acting coordinately even in the most disorganized masses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gezi_Park_protests
>Anti-government protesters
Awfully long list of organizations.

>>31187
>who kindling the fire
well that doesnt mean acting coordinately and the ones who act coordinately are minority. they are easily distinguished from the others.

Protesters marching in disciplined formation doesn't seem plausible atleast in our case.

>>31188
You really should reread what I wrote up there.

>>31181
I think that with with
>The basic intention of those who organize these isn't to clash with the police but it always escalates to that, and ends the same.
You are trying to compare These protests with the ones in HK, well, there are two diferent cases, in HK the protestor's intention is to literally fuck the Chineese goverment by destroying stuff. And the strategy that's happening in Catalonia is mostly to make sound in order to make the European nations react, while we can argue if this is useful or not, this is the strategy that has been followed, The cases where the protestors burn trash cans is mostly to stop the police from beating them.
Besides, the police is disguising as protestors and breaking stuff in order to make the protestors look violent.
> both parties use it for the same, showing the brutality of the other.
Again, most of the protests are peaceful and the shit only goes down when the police starts attaking them, and I don't say it because of the "porpaganda" I am stating facts.
Also when shit goes down the protestors are only burning trash cans, while the police is leaving people without one eye and using ilegal arms, the protestors are even kicking people out if they are acting to violent (don't have vid but I was there multiple times and have seen it happen)
>For me all these protests for whatever seems pointless, maybe I could rationalize that this way people can really show what problems they feel important, but to be honest even if couple of hundred thousands people go to the street to march around... they still a minority in most cases, noone can say that "here, this is how the majority feels". Maybe if they would collect signatures and show it into the faces of politicians to do something (since the protestors don't want to actually do anything really) that would worth more effort.
These protests are making independentism grow, before it was like 48% of people who supported independence, but now its like 58% so there's that

>>31241
>You are trying to compare These protests with the ones in HK
Nope. I could compare it with any protests from the last two decades. For example the ones of 2006 in Budapest (and in the country, but as far as I know those were without incidents, if you're interested here's wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_protests_in_Hungary).
>in HK the protestor's intention is to literally fuck the Chineese goverment by destroying stuff.
t. RT dot com
>Besides, the police is disguising as protestors and breaking stuff in order to make the protestors look violent.
That's literally every protests ever. Agent provocateurs are always used to spiral out events and force the leading figures to lose control over the masses and the actions.
>Again, most of the protests are peaceful and the shit only goes down when the police starts attaking them
And every police force ever: police is always peaceful they just take actions after protestors start damaging private property. Ie. the they started it first argument.
>before it was like 48% of people who supported independence, but now its like 58% so there's that
Can it be measured somehow it was the impact of the protests? Maybe people just think it was unjust to put those politicians in prison and this is what changed their minds.

>>31241
Also
>protestors burn trash cans is mostly to stop the police from beating them.
Get onto our level, plebs.

>>31243
>t. RT dot com
Kek
But my sources are a known one that lives there, in fact, today the yellow ribbons entered to the mall where he was shopping and started breaking stuff, he had to escape
>And every police force ever: police is always peaceful they just take actions after protestors start damaging private property.
>Ie. the they started it first argument.
Maybe you're right but all the main leaders of the protest have said that theire against violence, and honestly that's the best that can be realistically be done, there will always be some retards that start attaking the cops first.
Besides, the protestors have only damaged trash cans and a parasol so I don't see much loss. (and no cop has been injured exept >>31149 )
>Can it be measured somehow it was the impact of the protests? Maybe people just think it was unjust to put those politicians in prison and this is what changed their minds.
Maybe, but the police actions here have shure helped
>>31245
>Get onto our level, plebs.
Lel

>>31245
>t-34.webm
za radinu, za János urraa

>>31257
Man I miss playing RO2

>>31258
I didn't. It was unbalanced clearly axis side is favored. The game lost its potential because of shitty balance.

>>31259
Why? I mean they did have the Sturmgewehr 44 wich was OP as fuck, but this also happened irl, besides if you killed one you could always steal it from them

>>31260
>>31260
It's not just sturmgewehr. Anyway this post sums it up well.

https://forums.tripwireinteractive.com/index.php?threads/ro2-balance-double-standarts.116559/

Pls downvote the game from steam, they deserve it.

t.sovok player

>>31261
Huh, intersting, thanks for the link

Why is communism/leftist/left leaning anarchism so strong in catalonia?

>>38163
legacy of the civil war, as Barcelona was the center of the republicans and suppression of Catalan language during the rule of Franco I guess.

>>38163
this >>38169 and also the same reason most anti-colonial movements where left-wing, when you are against being "opressed" by another country it's more common to be anti-opression in all forms

>>38163
Because you can't be a nationalist if you don't have a nation.

>>38174
There are some catalan right-wing nationalists, but they are irrelevant politically nowadays and the weirdest thing I've ever seen

Why do Catalan nationalists want to live in a country restricted to the Mediterranean and not have a giant Atlantic coast for easier trade? Wouldn't an independent Catalonia be a Spanish/British puppet? Unless they try to recreate Aragon, but that'd piss off Italy and Greece as well.

>>38178
Yeah. Catalonia should conquer the rest of Spain.

>>38185
Should the Jasz reunite with Catalans?
>Catalans = Gotho-alans
>Jasz = Ossetian origin
>Ossetia is called "Alania"

>>38190
>Cat-Alans
My face when.

>>38169>>38173
>when you are against being "opressed" by another country it's more common to be anti-opression in all forms
Because communism isn't oppresive? They arent aware that the soviets stole the spanish gold reserves which was one of the largest in the world at the time of the spanish civil war as "payment" for supposed help?

>suppression of Catalan language

>>38178
do you belive in a One World Government?
>>38192
Most catalan commies aren't soviet-style commies m8
>They arent aware that the soviets stole the spanish gold reserves which was one of the largest in the world at the time of the spanish civil war as "payment" for supposed help?
Lies, everyone knows that the gold is stored in portugal

>>38214
No, but Catalonia is just too weak to be its own state unless it gets all of Aragon's old territory. Tiny non-countries that just serve as puppets to bigger ones shouldn't be sovereign.

>>38215
>Tiny non-countries that just serve as puppets to bigger ones shouldn't be sovereign.
Well Catalonia has Barcelona, wich is if I remember correctly the biggest port in the mediterranean and also we've got more population than your country, are you suggesting that denmark shouldn't exist?

>>38219
Valencia is actually a far bigger port than Barcelona.
And I believe Scandinavia should unite, but Denmark is far better than Catalonia. It controls the straits between the North Sea and the Baltic, has ports on both the North Sea and the Baltic, and can produce enough food to feed most of Scandinavia let alone Denmark alone.

>>38214
>Most catalan commies aren't soviet-style commies m8
Venezuelan style communism is better? Or why not cambodian style communism?

>>38220
>And I believe Scandinavia should unite
What am I reading

>>38221
>cambodian style communism
Pol Pot at least fought industrialism, though he can be seen as blackwashing it by associating it with communism, or at least executing it horribly.
It's actually ironic since Marx was obsessed with factories.

>>38223
>Pol Pot at least fought industrialism
Their goal was to reach 70 to 80% farm mechanisation in five to ten years, and a modern industrial base in fifteen to twenty years.[213]

>>38222
Denmark only has 5 million people, Norway 4 million, Sweden 10 million, Iceland 300,000, Greenland 50,000. If all those came together, that'd be around 20,000,000 people.
Swedish Finland should be taken from Finland, Murmansk should be taken from Russia, and the rest of Slesvig should also be seized from Germany, force them to fill up the Kiel Canal, and also maybe take Hjaltland and Orkney.
Scandinavia can thus be a great power and easily reject foreign cancer.

>>38224
It cites a secondary source about potential industrialisation within Kampuchea; there's more citation for anti-industrialist tendencies within Cambodian communism (which influenced its destruction), far-more so than in the USSR, China or elsewhere.
Of course I'm not defending Cambodian communism, and Pot may have been aiming for industrialism in the long-run like China, though there aren't a lot of citations on this.

>>38225
In theory it is a logical idea but finns hate swedes and norwegians are too greedy to give up their black gold.

>>38227
Eh, the Swedish Finns and Alanders would be happy, the Finns proper can just annex Estonia or act a buffer against Russia in exchange. Either that, or we can just ignore the Finns entirely and let them do their own thing. Norway can administer Iceland in-return and have an even larger national sea.

>>38220
that's true, my bad
Also Catalonia is heavily industrialized, that along with a heavy tourist economy I'd recon we'd fare alright
>>38221
Here's what the most left-wing independentist party proposes:
>"National liberation"

>The CUP defends the unity of the Catalan-speaking areas, or Catalan Countries, which they believe should be allowed to constitute an independent republic, according to the principles of self-determination. The CUP is also strongly in favor of the Catalan language, which should be the "preferential and common language" of the areas where it is traditionally spoken. Still, the 2012 CUP program refers to the advantages of multilingualism and encourages debate on the status that an independent Catalonia would grant to French and Spanish.[18][third-party source needed]


>Political system

>The CUP criticise the current political system in place in Spain and France, and defend an alternative brand of participative democracy. It has proposed, for example, that the general public be allowed to vote on important issues in referenda, and have suggested the creation of representative recall (Catalan: Iniciativa Popular Revocatòria), which would allow the general public to remove elected officials from office before their term expires.[18] As part of its belief in municipalism, it also has defended the creation of an Assembly of Councillors (Catalan: Assemblea de Regidors i Regidores Electes), made up of municipal councillors, as a national representative body.[18][third-party source needed]


>Economy

>The CUP broadly refers to its economic model as socialist. Its political programme calls for a "planned economy based on solidarity, aimed towards fulfilling the needs of the people", and defends the nationalisation of public utilities as well as transport and communication networks. It also calls for a nationalisation of all banks receiving government bailouts and considers the public debt "illegitimate".[18][third-party source needed]


>Environment

>The CUP calls for an end to nuclear energy, with the use of sustainable energy in its stead. It also calls for a ban on GMOs and the creation of an "ecological economy"


<Venezuelan style communism
isn't like 80% of Venezuela's economy privately owned?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Algeciras

That's the biggest port in spain, fascinating.

>>38230
Makes sense I guess, biggest port near gibraltar

>>38232
Why is Gibraltar so important by the way? It's a little rock that Britain barely even controls, yet it supposedly has far more control over the entrance to the Mediterranean than Spain. Spain literally still has territory in Africa on the other side of the Mediterranean.
Imagine Britain takes Copenhagen. Does it now have control over the Baltic? No, because there's still Helsingør, which occupies a far more narrow area than Copenhagen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_ports_in_Europe

Some shocking things on this list

>>38231
por que no los dos

>>38235
Seems normal to me, Rotterdam, Hamburg, etc., capitals usually aren't large ports anymore.

>>38234
used "near gibraltar" as a way to point out the location, it's obious that spain has more controll of the strait of gibraltar than the UK

>>38237
Would be funny to se madrid on the list

>>38237
Have you ever heard of

9 Port of Felixstowe Felixstowe

Or

6 47 Port of Novorossiysk

Mafia port

8 Port of Gioia Tauro Gioia Tauro

>>38240
I know of Novorossiysk.

>>38242
Because I wrote it?

>>38243
I know it from knowing the Russian settlement of the Caucasus; of course.

>>38163
>>38192
>>38221
A while back made this. It could be done the same with:
>not communism
<communism

>>38240
>Novorossiysk

It is pretty known city.

>Felixstowe

Players of Euro Truck Simulator know this one.

What's happening these days?
Catalonia would benefit a centralized European Union.

I fucking miss these days so much, we had hope that we would do something, change something.... Now the optimism is gone

Our politicians are pussies, on our last Generalitat election most votes were pro-independentist and yet we did nothign
it's ogre

>>49574
In general the European Union wouldn't benefit from regional nationalism, tough catalonia is similar to scotland in the sense that it is EXTREMELY pro-EU
So it's an interesting situation

>>50235
Generally in Europe noone has balls for anything, and they also have to conform to the rule: "no border changes ever". This rule makes it possible to stood up against Russia too.
It's easy for me to believe that lotsa compatriots of yours are disappointed.
Have to keep in mind that things don't keep for ever, circumstances will change. Have to keep working towards the goal, and pass the will on to the next generation.